Fifteen years is forever in the world of popular music. But the number doesn't tell the whole story. While it's been a decade-and-a-half since Mary Timony released her last solo record, the low-key guitar god has been plenty busy. She's released a pair of albums as part of Ex Hex, a record with indie rock supergroup Ex Hex with members of Sleater Kinney and cofounded Hammered Hulls with childhood DC punk friend Alec MacKaye. Timony joins us to discusses her latest, Untame The Tiger.
Mary Timony 0:12
It was interesting. It was a lot it was a lie was was very intense, I guess. I mean, for a lot of reasons, I would say. You know, like a few other people I've talked to there, there are moments of like, total relief of not having to like do anything and go anywhere and being able to make bread and go on bike rides and all that stuff. But it was also really lonely and isolating, obviously for for everybody. I actually had a really crazy experience during the pandemic or for me anyway, a lot of crap was going on in my life. So in a weird way, like the fact that it happened during the pandemic actually allowed me to deal with it all because I was my both my parents got sick so I was basically caretaking them and so I was really in a in a vortex of caretaking my family during the entire pandemic. So yeah, so that's what I was doing was weirdly it just lined up perfectly with the pandemic, both my dad and my mom got sick. And I was their primary caregiver. So yeah, so it was a while weird time.
Brian Heater 1:38
Not entirely dissimilar for for myself, I had. I live in Queens. And so Queens like April, march 2020 was like the this was the epicenter of the entire thing. And I got Bell's Palsy and my rabbit died. And it's just this thing that I noticed like within like weeks of each other and I just distinct I noticed that like, when I go through something, it's never one thing and I don't know, I don't know if it's the universe or what but this stuff always just compounds for some reason.
Mary Timony 2:16
It's really intense. I don't know. Uh, yeah, it's a me too. I don't know. I mean, why I don't know why that is. But it well, there's a reason why when it rains it pours is the saying because it actually happened. I don't know. Why does that happen? I don't know. But yeah, that was my I didn't pandemic it was just like, it was like, a crazy, it was crazy. I had a crazy sequence of just like, stuff, like, in a weird way. I'm like, Really glad it all happened at the same time because it was so chaotic that it was like, All right, like, Bring it on. Bring the shit on. Um, okay, so here's, here's what happened. It was of course, we also had Trump so you know, like, that was like, made everyone's brains like, like, in pain. Yeah.
Brian Heater 3:06
Sustained of like, Oh, yeah. Things were not good before the pandemic and you forget about that.
Mary Timony 3:12
Yeah, that's true. Well, yeah. He had only been in there for a little while right now. Wait, how long have you been been prison? Oh, no, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Three, three years. Okay. So it's all it's all. Um, so yeah, I guess we were dealing with that and then the pandemic. That's right. I guess. Maybe my parents, okay, so it's for me, I don't know. It's like a black hole because I was dealing with my parents this whole time and then the pandemic happened. Okay, so, um, anyway, it's okay. But um, well, lots of weird stuff that happened to me. I went, I went to Thailand, and I got sick. I got home and I was like, sick, mysteriously sick. And I knew I couldn't figure out what it was. And then it turned out, I had this like, Well, I was sick for months, just like not not terribly sick. But I was just in pain. Like and then it turns out like this is so random, and I don't know why I'm telling you but it turns out I doctor and she was like, they finally figured out I had this like weird. A lot of parasite but bacterial infection from Thailand. But But anyway, she was like, don't look it up on the internet, whatever you do. Because it has the same name as the Black Plague. Weights Mubarak. Yeah. But it's not it's just the similar bacteria. It's not the same one. I thought that was pretty funny. I was really proud that I had the bubonic plague. I didn't,
Brian Heater 4:44
but it was it's what you tell everybody that well, at
Mary Timony 4:47
the time. I was like, this is pretty cool. Yeah, I was pretty proud. But um, but anyway, and then, um, so what happened then, during that whole period, my partner of 12 year ers and I broke up. So last a long term relationship. And then my dad got cancer and then had an operation and then got dementia, like really fast from the operation. So it was like, that was really hard. And is that a thing that I've never heard of that? It does happen? If you're if you're, you know, he was 87? So, like, what you're
Brian Heater 5:24
predisposed to it? And that kind of just like, exacerbates it or accelerates it, maybe I
Mary Timony 5:29
think so. Yeah, that's what they said. So that was really intense. And, and then my mom self was declining, too. And she got cancer. And so I was caretaking both of them and it was was really, really challenging and stressful. Because it was all on me. And because it's hard to get old, and,
Brian Heater 6:00
and it's hard to watch people get old. It's hard
Mary Timony 6:03
to watch people get old and it's hard. Yeah. And it's and just it's crazy to like, lose, you know, we're all gonna lose our freedom at some point from illness from, you know, our physical bodies declining. That's just like really hard. So, you know, if we're lucky if we're lucky. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, if we're lucky, we're probably going to go through a period of a lot of suffering. At some point. I get. It's true. It's so bleak. But it's true. And none of us want to think about it. But anyway, so yeah, it was basically just caretaking. And then the pandemic happened, and it was a lot of the same time. But then I The good thing that happened was I worked on a record. So now my records coming out. So that was my, the thing that I did that made me happy during that time.
Brian Heater 7:00
Is there a way in which obviously, there's a very real way in which you're using this new record to process things? But was it also a distraction?
Mary Timony 7:12
Well, the reason why it wasn't was because of the pandemic was happening, and I had no time frame or no pressure. It was just something I was doing. Over a few years of in my free time. You know what I mean? And I didn't know what I was gonna do with it. I just was. Well, I had more time because I got my parents help. You know, so I wasn't there all the time at their house. And, um, and because I wasn't doing anything else, besides taking care of my parents and working on my record, that's all I did. You know, like, I mean, yeah. So it wasn't, it wasn't. If it was a distraction, I wouldn't have been doing it because I was like, very hyper focused on taking care of them. Yeah. So I didn't have to go anywhere. I just was in my basement and their house, which is right down the street. So if I had been touring Yeah, I couldn't have done that. So I really lucked out in the weird way, that the pandemic happened because I was able to be there for them like, totally, you know, I mean, I didn't have a choice I if I had been touring or anything else I would have had to not go and you know, so it worked out in a weird way.
Brian Heater 8:37
I know you have a brother but this this kind of fell on you because of proximity.
Mary Timony 8:42
No, he wasn't around he Yeah, he was involved. As
Brian Heater 8:46
we were talking about this idea of you know, when it rains it pours or things coming in groups. I think there's a certain extent to which obviously, like this, these very unfortunate things happening your parents, if that was kind of a freak coincidence, but sometimes like, it can be a little self perpetuating. You know, like it this has impact on other aspects of your life as well. And then things can kind of spiral but do you feel like the stresses that you were under between the pandemic and your parents did was that was that a strain on the relationship of
Mary Timony 9:15
my my boyfriend? Do you mean or? Oh, no, that happened right before my dad got sick. So he he was gone. Yeah, it all happened at this it was like he was gone. Dad got cancer, got dementia and then it was just like Bang Bang Bang Bang one thing after the next with also was he had a lot of very dramatic episodes since he had dementia. He's all kinds of stuff happened. I don't need to get good too, I guess but as we all know, with dementia, like a lot of stuff, he got violent, you know, it was like a lot of stuff like managing that. Yeah. But after a year, he was much happier actually. And doing grant I had so many nice times with him was one are full and my mom. So ultimately I looking back on it, I think it is a gift completely because I just got so much closer with them and just great. You know, in ways I hadn't been as great because of that. And even though there was a lot of suffering going on,
Brian Heater 10:19
I remember, you know, during the pandemic, I will be talking to like, especially like touring musicians, you know, who like, weren't really around to see their, you know, their kids much like and would in very hushed tones talk about the ways in which it was actually kind of a blessing. Or I interviewed a lot of cartoonists and you know, they're, it's, they need to be alone for long stretches of time. So they kind of enjoyed a but you would do it in hushed tones, because obviously you don't want to sound like this horrible thing was good for you, but, but I think it's a good sign that you're kind of now able to accept that for how horrible the entire situation was that there were actually some, like nice things to come out of it.
Mary Timony 11:00
Yeah, I mean, that's true. I guess for introverts, it was okay. But ya know, there was definitely, obviously a lot of loss. And hell for a lot of people.
Brian Heater 11:16
Are you an introvert? Oh, of course.
Mary Timony 11:18
Yeah. There's no, of course I said, of course. But just like, Can you tell I'm so weird. Obviously, you're an introvert. I mean, come on, I got,
Brian Heater 11:27
I also have an introvert but like, you know, I can, I can do stuff. And obviously, you can do stuff like this. And then you can go out on stage and perform. And it took a really long time for me to reconcile those things. Because, like, logically, they seem like they're at odds with one another. Yeah.
Mary Timony 11:42
That's interesting. So do you feel shy in everyday life?
Brian Heater 11:49
I am fine. Like, if I'm going to a store and dealing with, you know, somebody who works there, like, that's fine. I don't have but it for me, it's really manifests itself when I'm the worst I can, like, go out on stage, you know, like moderate panels. And that's no problem. Yeah. But if I'm at a party where I don't know anybody, I just completely shut down.
Mary Timony 12:14
Yeah. Isn't that interesting? I don't know. I mean, I I wonder if everyone has different reasons for that happening? Or if it's like, there's similarities. What what do you think's going on in your head when you're at the party and you shut down?
Brian Heater 12:34
I have an issue engaging with people who I don't know. And then I, we weren't enough, we really want to get into it. Like, there's this weird part of me that ticks in where I'm like, Oh, I'm a burden, or people don't want me at this thing. So I'm just gonna like,
Mary Timony 12:48
though. That's it. I think it's like negative stuff in our brains. Maybe. I mean, I don't know, I get it, ya know, me too. I think that's what it is. And for some reason you don't have when you're doing moderating a panel, or you're performing, you know, performing or something in public, like, there's a reason for you to be doing it. You're not, you don't need to worry about what I sort of, it's just different. It's more of like, a, it's a thing that you're doing. We're performing so that's not it's a different way of connecting. I think
Brian Heater 13:23
in your case, like you've got to set less in my case, I've got questions, and you've got a little bit of a safety net that you don't when you're meeting a stranger. Yeah.
Mary Timony 13:32
Yeah. When it's like, okay, so they are I think maybe what it is, is there certain places where you just feel more vulnerable or like not Yeah, that's probably what it is. So I know I think shyness, because I'm like, Yeah, I've had social anxiety. Now that I'm in my 50s I don't as much but I have the I was so incredibly I have a panic attacks constantly as I would say, like 14 through 30 I was like a mess and I didn't have like there was definitely a period where I was I couldn't even talk to anyone. Like I had a couple of close friends but then like, if I were to meet anybody like in college like meeting a stranger I would like literally have pant like crazy panic attacks. So it's all anxiety related. And I think it's all related to self like what's going on in your brain? Or like what you know, soft Yeah, like the top of the what you're telling yourself or you know, what you Yeah, I don't know. So, definitely. And I I think at this point, I don't care anymore as much but I still have the one thing that I know that I have, which is an issue for me being a musician is For the residual effects of shyness in my body, which is that I'm like super tense around people a lot. And I'm the reason why that's important for me as a musician to work through is because it gets in the way of my singing. So click I can't open up. Oh, so I'm working on that. Yeah.
Brian Heater 15:21
Do you get nerves? Fun? Yeah. If any of these things were obvious to be married wouldn't be
Mary Timony 15:27
asking time. No. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm always nervous around people. I like I'm just
Brian Heater 15:36
No, I but I mean, like on stage do you? Do you get the nerves with? Uh,
Mary Timony 15:40
oh, yeah. Crazy nerves. Yeah, like, so intense. I, there's a weird part of my brain where I can push it down. And I can ignore it. But it's still They're driving me making me super tense. And I don't might not know that. But like, that's definitely like, a way that I've gotten through performing is just like yeah, I mean, well, first thing that helps is that you've rehearsed it, right. So you know, like, you don't have to, like, doesn't have you don't have to, like freeform anything because it's first and the second thing is that I, I, there's a place in me where I can, I can just like repress my anxiety about in that specific situation, even though I'm still really anxious. But if the crazy thing is like, if I could never, ever moderate a panel, like that is the most terrifying thing to me. Like, people have asked me to come in to talk in front of people like you know, like some kind of like South by Southwest kind of thing, or yes, that kind of thing. Or like, I had a friend who's a teaches music teaches this music on rock, by being this music teaches his class on rock music. And he asked me to come in and talk that is like, the most terrifying thing I can ever imagine doing having to stand in front of an audience and an answer questions or talk? Like, I think I would die. I would laughs
Brian Heater 17:14
terrified. Yeah, that's what makes this all so difficult is there's no logic to any Wait, what do you mean logic to Oh, the anxiety? Yeah, in terms of like how it manifests? Because you're right, because like, that's something I can do. And, and I've, you know, you talk about being able to kind of tamp that thing down. I think what I've gotten good at is acknowledging the nerves and almost sort of like using that adrenaline rush to help me
Mary Timony 17:37
it's good. Wow, really? So how does it help you?
Brian Heater 17:42
When you get that adrenaline hit? You know, there's there's the like lizard brain part of you where it's a little bit fight or flight? And to me, it's sort of Yeah, you know, your heart gets pumping and like, you know, you're like more alert. Yeah. More engaged with things.
Mary Timony 17:56
Hmm. But so it doesn't shut your your, your brain down it used to. But what do you what did you tweak? What did you tweet? I will tell you.
Brian Heater 18:07
Yeah, ask you the same question. Okay. So for me, it was a couple things for me. Okay. Meditation was a huge one. Day Have you ever meditated?
Mary Timony 18:18
Oh, yes, yeah, no, I do all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Meditation. But meditation specifically for this or just in generally mean?
Brian Heater 18:30
It took me a long time to actually be able to, like, meditate with any efficacy at all. It was very difficult. Because partially because I'm like, such an anxious person. And you know, it's hard to shut Yeah, my part of my brain off. Yeah. But what I realized is, for me, one of the big values there is that it's something once I start doing it with regularity, if I'm doing it like 20 minutes every morning, then that's something I can tap into. There's like a calm that I can tap into and that that was very helpful for me. I mean, also, I like a lot of people, this is a more recent thing, but I like a lot of people like hit hit a wall during the pandemic, you know, with health stuff and everything else. And I finally started seeing someone you know, and a therapist and yeah, not a not a relationship
Mary Timony 19:25
like that is like a comedy, but I finally started seeing someone a therapist. Yeah.
Brian Heater 19:35
I found out a thing that I had suspected, suspected for a long time, which is that I have OCD and that I think, part of my anxiety stems from the old part, which is obsessive, which is like obsessive thoughts. And that's what I get stuck in that cycle. talking to somebody and that can be really distracting or Like, you know, like, when people talk about intrusive thoughts, they're talking about like, yeah, that thing of like, oh, you know, walking up to the edge of a rooftop and you know, thinking about jumping off, that will really distract you. If you're thinking like, what's the worst thing I could do? Or say, when I'm on the stage in front of all these people? Oh,
Mary Timony 20:20
my God. Yeah, that's so intense. I mean, I get I feel that I can relate. It's really intense. Yeah, that's
Brian Heater 20:30
it. And then just like, getting getting better as an interviewer like doing this long enough. And then also just Yeah, finding a way to just tune out the audience as much as possible. But I don't know. That's not really a thing you can do. In the same way.
Mary Timony 20:48
Yeah, no, it is like you could pretend you're in your own bubble. That really helps so much. Yeah.
Brian Heater 20:54
I mean, the lights are down most of time. That probably helps. Yeah,
Mary Timony 20:58
no, I mean, I think all those things are so great. I mean, I think that helps. Definitely, because then you don't have to imagine what people are thinking that that part of leaves your brain and you just are able to feel what's happening more. If you imagine that you're, you have the bubble around you and you're on stage. That's true. Yeah, now, those are all such great things.
Brian Heater 21:29
I love that. What switch flipped when he turned 50?
Mary Timony 21:34
Oh, my God, uh, so much? No, I mean, I relate. I've been you know, I've, I've done so many different things to try to figure out my life. Like, there are lots of different kinds of therapy and stuff. And, um, and I've always been into yoga and and all kinds of things I've done. Uh, oh, I will lately I've just been. I've been as a because it's all music related. So I have been coming, increasingly aware of how all the negativity in my head has affected my body. So I'm really need to move and stuff. So yeah, I've been trying, I've done a lot of different things like Alexander technique, and like I do. exercises to help align my body, you know, many ways.
Brian Heater 22:30
So I actually don't know what Alexander Technique is, what is that? Oh, it
Mary Timony 22:34
squeezes dude who lived like in the beginning of the 1900s, who was an actor, I think, who lost his voice. And he developed this whole system by like going inside of his own mind with like, feeling where there's body tension and gripping and letting go and how to let it go. So yeah, they they basically, it's basically like this system of How to Be aware of your body and how to have a, like, posture that's aligned in the effective way for you. And anyway, so stuff, lots of stuff like that is what I do. I do this whole thing every day. That's like all these weird stretches and kind of a meditation and breathing and like, I was constantly working on that stuff. Anyway. So what was your question about what did i What happened when I turned 50? I don't know. Like, everything shifted in my life. You know, like I said, it's like I my role reversal with my parents was a big deal. Letting go of a lot of things happened for me. And also something happens I think, with women at this age, that's like
there's some sort of shift where you start? I don't know, I think of it is like, we have had to learn to live a certain way you start realizing how you've made yourself small, because of society. And that's what does it asks you to do for your whole life, and you start getting old enough where you realize like, you don't that that's not the best way to, you know, that that that it sucks, at least that's how I am thinking of it and that So, and you just start getting treated a little bit differently by the world to whereas you, you know, and you hear women say this a lot and believe me, it's true, because I'm this age now where you just don't have as much value in everyday life. Because anyway, I can get really into this. But it's interesting it. No, it's, it's true. It's absolutely 100% True. So that makes you go like, you know what, I don't give a fuck, like, I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I really want to do. Because, you know, I just, I anyway, so I'm, this is all getting very out there I don't really know what's coming out of my mouth but yeah, I'm going through this period where I'm just like I am letting go of the, of making myself small and just coming into my own power a little bit more inside of my head, which is a great feeling and hard, but it's good,
Brian Heater 25:38
you know, I'm going to show my, my privilege on this one. But you know, in much the same way that for me it's sort of hard to reconcile this idea of being an introvert and you know, being able to perform like it is. I, you know, I there's nothing that I've seen of you that would lead me to believe that you were making yourself small. I mean, you know, you're this you're a rocker and, you know,
Mary Timony 26:04
a rolling stone me and my retires. Well, that's the thing, like you're saying, it's like there's one person that's on stage, and there's another person in everyday life and a lot of times like, the reason why we're doing this stuff is because our, you know, like, I feel like a lot of performers are really shy. I think, in their everyday life. Ya know, I have had that comment before. People that know me. I'm very different. In my, you know, I'm like, I'm not at all the same person, let me know. Like, yeah, if you knew me in real life, you wouldn't. Yeah. I know. I'm very I'm like, I'm a weirdo. I'm a hermit. I only my house. Yeah, all those things.
Brian Heater 26:51
Do you ever perform just acoustically? Like, just you on stage?
Mary Timony 26:55
Please, God? No, you don't.
Brian Heater 26:59
That's what I figured.
Unknown Speaker 27:00
That's what that's
Mary Timony 27:03
please, please don't know. I've tried. It's really hard. It's not my skill set. You know, some people are so good at that. Maybe someday. It's
Brian Heater 27:12
not your skill set, but also like there's power in being in a band.
Mary Timony 27:17
Oh, yeah. Well, there's a lot more instruments, which is fun.
Brian Heater 27:20
You know, there's I don't want to say there's like stuff to hide behind. But it's not. Everything is an entire I mean, obviously, when you're out there singing you know, eyes are mostly on you. But like, yeah, calves, you can kind of lean on people. Or you can lean on people more than you could if you're out there with an acoustic guitar.
Mary Timony 27:36
Oh my God, that's the most vulnerable you can be. Especially if you're not, I mean, then if you're not good at it, then it's like, it's not like me. I'm not good at that. Some people are really good at that. I'm trying to get better at singing and stuff. And I ultimately like if I could play a show that was like solo guitar. That would be fun. That that I could totally get into
Brian Heater 28:01
like a Ted Leo kind of thing. Just you like doing your songs on the guitar. Oh,
Mary Timony 28:07
I love Ted. And yeah, no, that would be he's he's amazing. No, I mean, like classical guitar or not singing, no singing involved, then I'm fine.
Brian Heater 28:16
Do you play classical guitar.
Mary Timony 28:19
I was getting more into it. Last year. I did. I did when I was younger. And last year, I spent a bunch of time doing duets with my friend who's a really good classical guitar player. I was practicing like, five hours a day. At one point after I finished mixing my record. I was my mom died. And then I got through doing the mixes on my record. And it was like so much stuff ended at the same time. Then I just jumped into this project where I was practicing classical guitar for like five hours a day for two months. And then I fucked up my back at the start, because I was like, sitting wrong anyway. Yeah, I love that like in a different life time I would be an instrumental musician and not sing. Because I actually liked doing that stuff more in a weird way. Like I can be cut off from my emotions and be shy and it's awesome. It's fine. It's totally fine. Because all you have to do is move my hands around. I don't have to actually interface with the world in through my mouth. Yeah.
Brian Heater 29:33
Is there a place where what you're doing now musically and that could potentially intersect? Maybe
Mary Timony 29:39
sometime that's what I was thinking last year, but we'll see. i That would be Yeah, I mean, I really I got dirt. Another thing that happened during the pandemic that was really really really fun for me as I started studying loot, which was so cool. And I yeah, I got I actually
Brian Heater 29:56
can't see it but my jaw like literally just dropped as he said that Yeah, I
Mary Timony 30:01
got my leads right over there. But I have a friend who's an early musician. She's a viola da gamba player. And she's so inspiring to me. And I love learning about music from the, you know, 15 1600s or before whatever. And that in another lifetime is totally, I would be really into that. But there's only so much time in the day, but I am gonna get back into it, I think. Anyway, yeah, but I had to stop because I was like, doing working on my record, and I just couldn't do both. So unfortunately, I put the loot down. But I want to get back to it.
Brian Heater 30:40
Don't get mad at me. And I swear I never do this. Yeah. Yeah. Can you can you play a little Can you play a little loot for me?
Mary Timony 30:50
Well, I It's really out of tune right now. And it's all messed up. And I also I yeah, I wish I had known today that we're going to do that on the podcast I would have practiced
Brian Heater 31:02
didn't occur to me to ask you to play the lute on the podcast. You mentioned it if I'm being honest. But one of these days, one of these days, yeah, one of these days, to a certain extent that kind of gets back to like your pre guitar days, right. I mean, you were playing other instruments early on. Oh,
Mary Timony 31:22
yeah. When I was a little kid, I, I took Viola lessons. I was not good at it at all. I sucked. But it was still something I did every week. But yeah, and then I got into guitar. And then I did. Yeah, I did. I did. You know, I wanted to this music High School. So we did. I did. A lot of guitar playing at school, and a lot of lessons. And my teacher was like an r&b jazz guy. He was amazing. And I just learned so much from that being at that school's incredible place. For me as a lost depressed kid. It was like the best thing that could have happened to me. And then I wanted to study classical guitar in college, but I did one year and I didn't like the music program where I was. So I, I stopped and I just was like, I just want to write punk songs and not do this stuff anymore. at a at a very young age of 20, I decided that I'd had enough of studying music. And I've always sort of regretted I wish I had gotten a degree in it. But whatever. It's okay. Guys do that later.
Brian Heater 32:36
I guess to an extent. I mean, making that commitment to go to a music focused High School. It sounds like you know, in junior high or middle school that you already were like, pretty aware of what to do. Yeah.
Mary Timony 32:50
Luckily. Yeah, all that happened. I just lucked into that. I mean, it was like it's a public art, the public school here in DC. And it's a wonderful place. I just, I don't know what I would have done without that school. Honestly, it really saved me. So yeah, I was in the DC history class with Dave Chappelle, actually, he was my he sat next to me. He's just like, this little guy from Ohio, who's super nice.
Brian Heater 33:20
I'm gonna I'm gonna make it eight questions, but Yeah, funny was he, he
Mary Timony 33:24
was so he wasn't cracking jokes, but he was really really nice. Like, very socially engaged, which is usually the sign up, you know, it's like a people that are successful, like that are really good. So he was
Brian Heater 33:42
right. Obviously, it was very sharp. It sounds very. Oh, yeah.
Mary Timony 33:45
Yeah, he was I didn't know him well, but we sat next to each other in DC history. But um, their high school was amazing. I just like, we would like there were musicians that would come visit and play and we do master classes like Joe pass this jazz guitar player came to play for us. And yeah, we got a master class with like Wynton Marsalis and that was super cool. And oh, here's a cool thing. Earth Wind and Fire came to give us a masterclass on the music business, which was incredible. And I wish I had like videotaped it. Yes. Yeah, I wish I had videotaped that. 1987
Brian Heater 34:30
It was a lot harder to videotape things in 1987 it was.
Mary Timony 34:35
Yeah, I know. But that was so inspiring as a is a weird little depressed kid to be around this like totally different world and be so inspired by the kids that I went to school with my teacher like all these, you know, successful musicians were coming through the school like Dionne Warwick I spoke at the graduation. Anyway, so that was super inspiring. And just like I was like, Oh, I don't have to be depressed and like, you know, it just showed me that, like, if I did music that I wouldn't be depressed. So that was cool.
Brian Heater 35:17
Yeah, it's so important to have those people like to see somebody being successful at it to see that somebody has been able to make a career, obviously, like, it's a very different story now, but that, you know, I hear this from a lot of people like, again, I interview a lot of cartoonists, and this comes up a lot with comics, they're like, Oh, I didn't realize that you could do this for a living until Yeah. Such and such. Yeah. Oh,
Mary Timony 35:41
right. Like until Yes. It's wild. No, it makes such a diff. I mean, it's such a gift to get that. At that age. It really is. I mean, it's like makes either makes you able to do it or not. So thank God, when things like you know that when we're given those opportunities as kids,
Brian Heater 36:07
it sounds like in a very real sense that, like music itself was your way of connecting with people in the world, as as well as a kid. I mean, yeah.
Mary Timony 36:19
That is true. No, you're right. Yes, that's true. Yeah. Yes, it is true. I think that's why, you know, I got into it, which I've heard other people say to me, especially with music. It's such a social art form that you kind of get drawn into it, because it's the thing that people usually like is that you're connecting with other musicians. And you need each other to be able to make it unless you're just a solo. Me know. Person. That's why that's a little bit more scary, I think, because you're not actually connecting with the band members. You're connecting with the audience, which is the whole different thing. But um, yeah, no, I think it's, um, it's a nice, I found as a younger person, I think I found it was like, a way I could connect with other people and not be anxious and shy. I don't I don't know if I was aware of that. But that's what was happening.
Brian Heater 37:26
From my perspective, you had two really important things happening at around the same time. So there's that and then you know, you're you're in a band with Alec Mackay. There's like being in DC at this moment. When it's true, right? You were getting like, you know, Reese white and Dionne Warwick making a living but then the other end you were seeing like, oh, that you don't have to be a superstar. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Mary Timony 37:51
That was like, the main thing that I think was going to punk shows in DC. And yeah, because it was just it was inspiring. in many different ways. I would say. Mostly what I got from it was a it was fun, because it was my friends that I would go see play. And see it shows but be it was like, anybody could do it. When it was kids, and there was like people my age or a little bit older.
And there's also this thing about it wasn't just more like little gangs. It wasn't really, our I didn't think of it as
that people weren't trying to be good. They were just trying to be angry, and trying to say what they felt and and it was also kind of like little gangs. It really was. So it was like these dudes and these little gangs. This is what that's what that scene was like, was just cool. But it was a whole thing. Also, I think another inspiring thing about it was just as old and buckin like cool underground weird network of these people doing something that was not anywhere else except for here, it was so local. And they no one was trying to get a big job and be successful. And no one was trying to even be successful with their music because it wasn't about success or money or anything. It was about being in a gang and connecting with other kids and about that's really all that it was about. Yeah, it's about Yeah, just like the little network, the little universe in DC and other punk scenes, local punk scenes. And it was really sort of like a I don't know, in some ways, it was weird. It was like a bunch of humans figuring out a thing to do that wasn't related, but making it up all on their own because it wasn't supposed to be related to anything else. Like, like, okay, like, here's some instruments, let's figure out what to do with these. Oh, you know what I mean? Like, not learn how to play them from anyone else. But ourselves. So then, ultimately, that is sort of also frustrating to me too, because like, nobody. I don't know. It's easy to just like, not care about your instrument and get because I didn't really feel like I fit in because I wanted. I wanted to be a good guitar player. I did fit in with my voice, because I don't know how to sing. I'm like a punk singer. So it's I'm a weird combination. Anyway, so I don't know, it was very inspiring to be around. Yeah. I would say,
Brian Heater 41:00
obviously, you know him now, I don't know, how will you do about the time but I mean, is there an extent to which in was kind of an exception to some of those things about taking it? You know, seriously in that way? Yeah. Yeah.
Mary Timony 41:12
Yeah, I see what you're saying. You know, what's something kind of cool is I known Ian, and Alex since I've been a tiny kid, because they we grew up on the same street, actually, until I was five. And then my parents kept the house as a rental. So I was always back on Beecher Street.
Brian Heater 41:32
Ian's a bit older, but as Alex, Alec is closer to your age, right?
Mary Timony 41:36
I like it's my brother's age. She's three years older. And Ian is eight years older, I think. But so I love those guys. And it's weird. I've actually known them for ever since I've been the little child. Um, but no. And he has been an incredibly inspiring person to me, and to many people, you know, made up his own rules and done things his own way and, and along the way, helped a lot of people by supporting other bands, and, you know, starting this whole label, and he was one of the first people I remember who was really supportive. He's always so supportive, that the other thing about the punk scene in DC is how supportive it was people were really cared about other people's bands. And not at all. I don't remember that. Although you hear other people saying that. They wanted to kick out the jams and like, you know what I mean? Like, I've heard Ian saying that it's like all that, you know, it's like, when you're when you do show, it's like all about the whole thing. Kick out the jams like where you're trying to? Yes, yeah. So, but at the same time, everyone in that scene was really supportive. And in being the main dude in that scene, yeah. Yeah, I just remember him, always being very interested. He's always very interested in what people are doing. And supportive.
Brian Heater 43:24
When did you first have the courage to get up in front of people and perform?
Mary Timony 43:28
Honestly, yes, I was from being around punk shows because it was just this feeling like your your turn, you know what I mean? It was like the show was like, okay, see, all my friends bands play. And now like, who's who's gonna be in another band and play? It was just, it didn't seem as scary to play that kind of music, I think. So as opposed to like doing the recital in my high school, which was terrifying. But I still enjoyed that. But this is different.
Brian Heater 44:06
Your brother ended up being a musician as well. Was it? Was it a musical house?
Mary Timony 44:11
Um, my brother. Yeah, he started playing guitar. Well, my mom was very good about making sure we were taking music lessons. So in that sense, it was my parents were not musicians, but my mom really spearheaded that. Yep. And so ya know, my brother, I learned so much from him. And he ended up like, studying classical composition in college, and he was really good, but Oh, and then another cool thing about him is he got into playing guitar like, Have you ever seen anyone do two handed guitar like tapping like Stanley Jordan? It was a big thing in the 80s not a big thing. But there were people in 80s Like this guy named Stanley Jordan who played only with two hands on the guitar on the neck. Like he didn't strum, he just tapped with both hands. So it sounds more like a piano or harpsichord or something. So my brother did this thing where he traveled around in Europe for like, a while after caught like five or six years after college busking on the street. With tapping guitar, he's really good. He played like Bach and all this awesome stuff. So he's, he's fine. He writes really good songs that no one will ever hear. Because he doesn't want to put them out in the world, but he's super talented.
Brian Heater 45:39
You've had projects that really intersected with what was going on in the northwest of the time, like wild flag again, haha, how well aware or connected. Were you with that fried girl seen at the time.
Mary Timony 45:56
Um, I. So, um, I was playing in this band called autoclave here in DC in the late 80s, or 1990, maybe. And I didn't, I think that's right when everything started happening with wire girl. So then I went to Boston to go to college. And I would come back here and practice in one summer I came back and like the whole riot girl thing hadn't really taken off here. Because Bikini Kill I think was living here. And so is Batmobile. Some people from Bravo bill are from here, but and they were on the scene. And it was awesome. And there was like, right girl meetings, and the whole thing was like really happening here. So that was really cool. And that's how I found out about all that stuff. And then that I got to be friends with some people out in Olympia, there was like a Connection between DC and Olympia that people were friends and like. But, um, let's see, I guess I got to be friends a couple years later with Carrie Brownstein. And I would go out and visit her and hang out in Olympia and stuff. So I always really liked what was happening out there. Cuz it was punk. But there were way more women involved, which there were not here. And when i That's why I asked, ya know, when I was growing up going to these punk shows, which is only a few years earlier, but of course, when your dad age, it seems like last last generation ago, which is really it's only like 1985 8687 It was all guys and bands here. And then. Yeah, and this woman who Christina blot, who is total genius, who I love so much. She wanted to start a band and literally hit me up because I was like one of the only girls she knew that played a guitar, play guitar. You know, at the time we were like at that would go to punk shows. So we tried to start a band and we tried for like, a few years, but we could never find the right drummer. But anyway, but finally she went I went to college, and she found Melissa and Nikki and this started jamming and then invited me and
Brian Heater 48:21
we talked a little bit about whether it was a musical house. You know, as you said, your parents weren't musicians, but something that like really resonated with me in a recent interview that you did. I think maybe last year when you were talking about everything that was happening in your life and record your father who wasn't a huge music fan. I don't know how much of this was this sort of the dementia but like, Yeah, he got really into it. You bonded? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 48:52
Oh my God, it
Mary Timony 48:53
was so wonderful. He always liked the like, one thing that I loved about my dad is that he loved reading and learning about stuff. And he loved poetry. And, but he'd never never really liked music that much. But when he got sick suddenly, for whatever biological reason, or whatever reason that he just been not been aware of it his whole life. He just suddenly loved music. So yeah, one day, he asked me who the greatest poet of Canada was, and I was trying to figure out what he was talking about. I was like, Googling on my phone like greatest part of Canada. And I kept seeing names and he was like, no note, so I had to and he's like, text my friend and ask them so I did and his friend, he
Brian Heater 49:50
had an answer in mind when he was asking you this. Well, he had
Mary Timony 49:54
dementia. So not for long though just you know, medium of Uh, yes, he knew he knew he knew. He knew. Yeah, he just couldn't remember. So I asked his tennis buddy in Florida and they got back to me and said, Well, I'm a big fan of Leonard Cohen. So I think he's talking about Leonard Cohen. So then I said, that letter code and he's like, yes, Leonard. So then I got him like, this box out of Amazon of like, all of Leonard Cohen CDs, and his main activity would be listening to Leonard Cohen and he just couldn't get enough. I was over and over and over. And he, he got fixated on certain songs. And then he just liked seeing them by himself, too. It was amazing. And also, William Butler gates, the lake I live in his free poem, we every time I went over, he would get up out of his chair and start saying the poem. And and I would say it along with him. Yeah, and also some Bob Dylan. So he really just, Oh, and another cool thing they were doing is my mom found. When she was doing okay, she found this joke club for them to go to so they were doing a joke club every week, which is so cute. What is
Brian Heater 51:20
a joke club?
Mary Timony 51:21
It was for older people, especially people with memory loss, and they just tell jokes. In a room every week, I should have guessed. It was wonderful. So my mom and I would Reese you know, look up a bunch of goat jokes on Google for them all out, and then they would go tell the jokes.
Brian Heater 51:46
Do I remember any of them? Oh, God, we're gonna end on one of your mom's jokes. No,
Mary Timony 51:50
cuz I can't remember. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, hold on.
Unknown Speaker 51:55
Let me look.
Mary Timony 52:05
Okay, a policeman stops a man driving down the street with two penguins who are sitting quite comfortably in the backseat of his convertible. Sir, he says you've broken the law. You can't have penguins in your car taken to the zoo immediately. The next day, the policeman stops the same man who's driving down the street with the penguins. But this time the penguins are wearing hats and sunglasses. Sir, I told you to take these penguins to the zoo. Oh, but I did, replied the man. We had a great time and today we're going to the beach.