Episode 664: Brendan Canty (Messthetics, Fugazi)

[00:00:01] Episode 664 It's the inner sort of bucolic inner suburbs. I would say it's prop It's DC proper, but it's it's you know rolling hills and trees but we got this skunk from a what I would call a pet store of ill repute That so like to sell

[00:01:01] Road kill animals to just wild like to children yeah, friendly beasties and I Should tell everybody to stop screaming at the top of my stir Hey Michelle, I'm doing a podcast

[00:01:29] I mean at this point like she's it's she's probably used to it now. I know well, you know since kovat It's like I've been basically in my living room. So I had a set of studio that got Was part of a restaurant facility that got

[00:01:45] The whole thing got shut down. So I had to kind of move home, which is fine Because all my kids have moved out mostly anyways, so except for Mabel But anyways, yeah, I end up doing a lot of the stuff in my living room

[00:01:58] Which is which is like I say it's a it's a post kovat reality And I'm okay with it. This is my living room slash studio that I've been right now Which is also where I do my work work. So I'm we're on the same page there

[00:02:12] Exactly. Yeah, it's the future. It's the present Yeah, so anyways it but uh, yeah DC What we're talking about skunks in DC. Yeah, I don't know where this skunk came from You say legal to get skunks and at this point because I've thought about getting one

[00:02:30] Here like especially during kovat. I was like, oh maybe we should get a skunk you know because could we were getting everything else we had chickens and a little coracle type bird named grumpy monkey that my son got out of the window well and raised to

[00:02:48] To adult had taught him how to eat and he flew away Yeah, it was But we but yeah, you can't get skunks anymore. It's just as well. They're great animals they were really I mean it was his name was chantilly and They were it was totally

[00:03:07] Docile cuddly animal I think they don't they don't have predators per se You know not around there for I mean foxes Coyotes, maybe it probably no. No, I mean we have foxes for sure No, I mean, I'm not even around

[00:03:21] I mean, I don't think they just picked it up out of the street and sold it to a kid I think they must have gotten it from somebody some I just thought we were talking about natural natural

[00:03:30] Predator Oh natural skunks. Okay, the skunk named after the big bopper song I Actually think it was named after chantilly, Virginia But which was a place we used to pass on the way out to the country out to the front royal

[00:03:44] On their way to the Shenandoah River to our cabin to a my aunt's cabin out there That's what I think so but it also just sounded fancy, you know had a head and an air of of a like perfume and

[00:03:59] French Frenchness in much the same way that the most famous skunk is also French That may live you. Yeah May we was it you have to have the scent glands removed I assume right? Yeah, totally they still stink a little bit, but they don't stink poor

[00:04:16] You know too bad Yeah And they mostly stink up with this decenting stuff that you drop on them every once in a while when they stink I don't know. It's kind of musty It's not it's not horrible it's not offensive really it's just a little funky

[00:04:31] But you know Yes, you got to come with the bitch. It's going to come with the funk I'm a fan of most animals I would say but I my

[00:04:39] Hesitation about a skunk is obviously, you know beyond me this the smell thing is there they're basically badgers aren't they? They're really soft kitty cats is what they feel. Oh, yeah, they're badgers

[00:04:53] Yeah, but they but they they behave like really soft kitty cats they climb up on you and Cuddle they're not like ferrets that like run away and hide under the couch

[00:05:03] They're much more relaxed or at least Chantilly was you're essentially living on what sounds to be a small farm in the middle Of the city is that fair?

[00:05:12] We've sort of gotten rid of everything since everybody all the kids were home. We had four kids all kids were home and For kovat and we just got chickens and it just was like this daily, you know like down on the farm

[00:05:27] Let's learn how to make Ethiopian food. Let's do this. Let's see that, you know, like there is it's just like Smoke and mirrors. There is no danger here people So So yeah, but as soon as everybody went back to their regular lives You know

[00:05:45] I have two boys up where you are in New York and I've got one up in Newfoundland And then I my daughter is still living here but um

[00:05:55] As soon as they split I was like, I gotta get rid of these fucking chickens. They're the worst. That's the worst animal and so I gave them to a friend who has a farm out in the country the

[00:06:06] Cracklebird just taught itself how to fly away and flew away one day. It was just beautiful and sad It's the same way My dog passed away very quickly that but after 17 years, thank you So yeah, and then we lost a cat too. So we so we're down

[00:06:25] After all that we're down to just my wife and I and my daughter and two cats. So it's no longer What would you call it managery yes, that's the word I was looking for it was that or arc Exactly

[00:06:42] There's no is neither. It's it's it's just it's pretty damn quiet is what it is Obviously, I get the New York thing. How did one of your Children wind up in Newfoundland Good pronunciation there. I have to say

[00:06:57] You do better than I do. I'm always like Newfoundland and it's Newfoundland. Yeah, it is He yeah, he was He yeah, he was Going to school here. It didn't really suit him too Well, so he went to a semester school up in Maine called Chowankie

[00:07:16] Which was like you can get rid of your phone and live in the woods for four months and study natural sciences he got more and Into that realm until like living in an eye in isolation in the woods with like-minded individuals

[00:07:30] And then he started researching schools. He started to get hone in on folklore as a study he found one of five universities in the world that have an undergrad degree in folklore and That's Memorial University up in st. John's he applied to it never went there

[00:07:46] To look at it because it's so far away, but he applied to it got in and was like yes That's where I'm going. And so we took I took him up there and yeah, it's great we've had a great he's had a great time up there and Immediately

[00:08:03] Met some really amazing people and I've been up there three times like dicking around the country like with my with him with my my son true It which it's his birthday today. Happy birthday true it and then with my brother

[00:08:19] We went up for a couple weeks and dicked around and then within the whole family went up this last June and did the whole like Whales and iceberg things and went out and did tons of hiking and

[00:08:33] Traveling around so yeah, we love it up there may have made some really good friends. And yes, absolutely beautiful I've been in New York for about 20 years that I've from Cal for originally have been out here for about 20 years and I'm like

[00:08:45] Hitting that point in my life where I'm very seriously considering Not quite, you know rural Canada, but you know, maybe moving a little bit outside of the city What is what's kept you in the DC area this long You know That's a good question

[00:09:05] My my wife was out in school in Seattle in the early 90s And so I was out there with her for a few years and I sort of seriously thought about

[00:09:16] Putting roots down there and like raising our kids out there or having kids out there we didn't have kids yet, but I guess my parents were out there. My family's from the West Coast. They're from my older brothers and sisters were born in Berkeley and

[00:09:33] So they're all Cal. I'm from yeah, so both sides of my family well, my dad's side of the family the Canties are all from from like since 1867 we're living in San Francisco and My grandmother was born in 1889 with 16 in the San Francisco earthquake

[00:09:55] Living in the mission with her However, many brothers and sisters. I think it's 11 1906 1906. Yeah, that's my grammar was yeah, it was 16 in 1906 so anyways, they were all out there and then my my my mother's family were in Seattle and

[00:10:14] Spokane and Montana and then they ended up she ended up going to college down there and her mother moved with her from Monte for Billings, Montana and then then they all ended up in DC just for You know, it's probably 18 years or so, you know and then

[00:10:31] Split and went back west but I stayed I don't know. It kind of suits me. I It's all I've ever known. I grew up here My kids are going to the same schools I went to I you know, there was something about like putting roots down

[00:10:47] In a place that you already Had roots, you know, it's been interesting. I don't always love it because you're driving by the house You grew up in you know all the time and everything is so familiar but the kids

[00:11:01] Love have loved growing up here for the same reason I loved growing up here just like the same stuff like it's easy to get around It's It's like it's a lovely city

[00:11:11] There's all the clubs are all ages clubs, you know, that's really thriving music scene. They all play music they all They do they take advantage of it in the same way that we did, you know

[00:11:24] And they love the schools. Those schools have all been really great. So I Love staying here just because I love We've got a great bookstore down the street that I can you know, and I know the crossing guards name and

[00:11:38] The guy in the corner will fix my car after hours for cash, you know for cheap You know, and he's like I just know all this like basically all the beautiful things about living in a city That take time to establish and then you're like

[00:11:52] It's like mr. Rogers. It's like these are the people in your neighborhood, you know You just get used to them so it does get a little old, you know walking the same walk

[00:12:01] You know all the time but at the same time I leave a lot. I feel like Because I I booked you know, I'm on the road half the year down, you know on a good year and

[00:12:14] Less than that gets a little it gets a little taxing. But yeah I like to I like to leave and come home to my home and DC is definitely my home Growing up and coming of age in DC at the time that you did obviously

[00:12:31] Culturally and musically was such a unique was such a unique scene. I'm wondering, you know being in Seattle in that period in the early 90s, but was it comparable at all when you were out there

[00:12:48] You know when I'm when I was out when I was out you mean in terms of like did in terms of in terms of music and cultural exchange there was Seattle was such a such a much more like

[00:13:02] internationally exploding scene than when I was growing when I was growing up it was like I Was in high school and it was like, okay well I know music pretty well at this point and I know that the bad brains are the best band on the planet and

[00:13:14] I know that minor thrust really great, you know And I know like to me DC was making the best music on the in the world Because I I mean just because I'm I felt that way because it was my you know, I liked

[00:13:29] fast, you know really accomplished fast weird music so So it did I I mean I felt like that about some of Seattle but the Seattle thing was so Like people at the same time were just moving there like including myself

[00:13:48] I mean I went there because my wife went there but I Remember the people at sub pop I had friends working at some of their like we're just gonna tell people that you know

[00:13:56] But they it's what they called the lesser Seattle movement where they were just like tell people that it was shitty You don't want to move here. There's people jumping off the space needles and

[00:14:07] Yeah, and then yeah, well and then the other truth of it all was that I felt like the The real scene was down in Olympia like to me like that's that was to me a much cooler scene I mean, I've I mean I did I knew

[00:14:24] You know, I knew some of the people in the Seattle scene And I knew some people who lived in Seattle But most of my friends were down in Olympia and on the weekends We would go to Olympia when we could hang out with everybody down there Lois and

[00:14:37] Calvin and all those guys and then even like Kurt, you know, like he spent a lot of time down at Olympia too, but so I guess if you want to lump it all together, I would say

[00:14:49] That sort of felt like it, you know because Olympia kind of felt like it, you know It felt like a home like a very homespun scene. They they like making pies That's what I remember about that

[00:15:02] No, I'm still friends. I'm still friends with a lot of those people I mean, I I still adore it like Lois and I taught still talk a lot Nikki McClure You know Calvin everybody's kind of still around there, you know

[00:15:14] And my sister was my sister and brother both went to evergreen So we would go out and stay at my sister's cat. We would like fugazi when we went out there

[00:15:23] We'd stay for days at my sister's cab and she had this cabin with no running water out near told me State Park exit 111 and We would stay with her she

[00:15:35] And go kayaking and hang out and then you know, so yeah Olympia was sort of always our central base I can relate, you know being from the very I think is probably more comparable to the Seattle situation where

[00:15:49] Anytime I go home which does it it it feels dramatically different and probably for similar reasons as Seattle You know all the tech money and everything coming in that it just it felt like a place that I couldn't stay

[00:16:01] I know I think a lot of towns feel like that. I think DC feels like that to my children. I Just like there's way too expensive at this point You know, like when we were first starting, you know ever these the stories

[00:16:14] Everywhere but when we first we bought this house 27 years ago for 250,000 250 thousand dollars, you know and it's like, you know, whatever now You have to add a million to that to just even Get in here and D and nothing that's not like a lot of people

[00:16:29] Get in here and D and no places had a harder time of it than Than San Francisco, you know, I know so many people who you know Just feel totally bewildered by the fact that they had to move out of their perfect city

[00:16:45] Which it really was for so long. I mean it was really a lovely lovely place to live It you know what? It's still a lovely place to live but it's yeah

[00:16:55] It's still one of the great cities and one of the most beautiful cities in the world, but it but it's you know, it's It's hard. You know that the wealth discrepancy there and

[00:17:05] You know some of the richest and some of the poorest people in the country living right next to each other like God There's something very clearly wrong going on. Yeah out there Yeah, I mean DC has that that discrepancy as well

[00:17:20] Just it's very it's an extremely segregated city I mean it's less so Well, it's less so now but there's just mostly because white people are moving into all the black neighborhoods, you know Centrifugation is making it

[00:17:34] Yeah, let's say good. So take take that as you as you will but it's Anyways, I think his story is happening like almost everywhere except for maybe Baltimore which is like

[00:17:48] Dad doesn't seem to change all that much. I get the sense sort of, you know listening to you talk about the formative Music of your childhood that a lot of it was really I mean obviously was informed by your father being a jazz

[00:18:05] Being interested in jazz but also going To like a predominantly black high school and really being immersed in like the soul music of the period Yeah, well, I mean the soul music was the popular music of the period I mean it was like basically like You know

[00:18:22] Funkadelic and parla parla was on the radio. I mean it was they were having hits. It wasn't like hard It wasn't hard to find You know, it was what they were playing at the dances. So

[00:18:36] But yeah, yeah, I mean I think I'm I mean I feel incredibly grateful to have gone to a predominantly black school and you know in high school and Just because you end up in the war in an incredibly segregated world

[00:18:51] That's like, you know, and I feel really blessed to have at least had a shot not to live a totally secluded life Yeah You know now that I'm stuck in my living room I'm not really stuck in my living room

[00:19:06] But I was lucky growing up in the Bay Area for you know, similar similar reasons and it's something that I think about a lot in terms of in terms of politics now in terms of like

[00:19:19] Really sort of a lot of this like anti-trans legislation that's been happening of just you hear you hear about all these politicians who are Staunchly against a group of people until one of those people is in their life for some reason and once

[00:19:36] Their daughter that happens it only happens about a hundred percent of the time Yeah, right like Dick Cheney famously like was like a lot more soft on LGBTQ rights than other Republicans because he had a gay daughter and it it's just like yeah, maybe maybe if there were

[00:19:53] Maybe if more people lived with more different kinds of people Maybe we might be able to better as a society or they heard different stories, you know on television or in them or books You know, I mean that really is that I mean

[00:20:08] That's why people you know the it's people fight diversity initiatives all the time and I'm like Yeah, but man do it. They work, you know, are you talking about the woke mind virus? Yeah

[00:20:23] No, there's just yeah, it's you just see everybody from Morris Eda whoever just you know, yeah exactly They're like, of course, you know, I'm not talking about being you know woke or whatever

[00:20:34] But I mean but really it's like if we heard if we just could and I think it's happening I mean, I think we're getting more and more stories Onto our into our lives that are of More from more diverse places and it's changing the way that people are

[00:20:52] Start, you know, it's starting to change for sure if you take somebody like John Lydon who? It just strikes me that it strikes me that it's possible to learn all of the wrong lessons from punk Hmm. Oh

[00:21:08] Yeah, oh, there's a you know, you could talk to people who are like, oh, you know Trump's totally punk I'm like, what do you what are you talking? Oh, you mean he's just an asshole is that? Yeah

[00:21:22] But if you if you can be up like a Kanye level or John Lydon level provocateur and It'll only get you so far. You know, I mean there's really At some point you just shut the you got to shut the fuck up. I

[00:21:40] Think about this a lot as I get older, you know having Listen to listen to a lot of punk and and I guess for me a Big part of getting older and and growing up and maturing is Re-examining I

[00:21:59] Say I'm like I'm doing therapy talk as I mean, I mean like I started going to therapy in kovat But examining what they call core beliefs and therapy, you know these things that you have held on too tightly and never

[00:22:12] Re-examined and I think that that I think that for all of this sort of beautiful wonderful things about punk Specifically that people can get Too tripped up in these ideals that they had and never really

[00:22:27] Examine for any reason I mean I kind of feel like it's like you got to keep them around like a Like a book you you love and you got to reread them Like you're saying you got to re-examine them But you got to reread

[00:22:37] reread your favorite book every once in a while and see how it resonates with you at that point because you do go Through things every day your your

[00:22:45] You know, hopefully you're living a life where you're challenged every day and you're able to challenge yourself every day and and and in that way You can you change you turn into a different person and throughout throughout life and eventually you can go back and look at five-five

[00:23:03] Find the little pencil mark on the wall and see how high you've grown basically, you know See if you see if you've changed at all, you know, I don't know it to me

[00:23:11] It's like those kind of things rereading Kurt Vonnegut or rereading, you know anything is is it shows me What my biases used to be And what they are and and sort of where I am now in that way

[00:23:28] You know it definitely you definitely like I used to think that this book was about that this and else Also as you get older you just forget all of these things and you forget the nuances and it's really easy to forget

[00:23:40] Because the world will tell you in terms of the punk rock stuff The world will tell you what it thinks all that was about You know like oh, yeah You were you stood this close to Kurt Cobain for five minutes and that was your entire life, right?

[00:23:55] Or whatever it was, you know, like there's these things that get diluted not diluted distilled like these members collective memory moments that get distilled into this like Like these, you know the farther we get away from the reality of it the more

[00:24:14] The more this story just gets easier to tell honestly because it's not true And we play a role in that whether consciously or subconsciously where we You tell a story enough times you figure out which beats work and then this story kind of starts to transform itself

[00:24:30] Yeah, and and then you realize you're telling your brother's story You're right, I mean that is like you're like, oh shit that happened to James not me at all You know or whatever or Ian or something, you know

[00:24:39] And I'm like, well which one of these is my story and then you have to kind of go back and really do that That work of trying to remember your story even though it's not a really great even doesn't tell as well as the other ones

[00:24:52] You know, I think that that's probably the best part of therapy Really is that you can sort of start taking ownership over your actual memories And and stop, you know kind of I don't know kind of it's really easy to lie to yourself about your Entire life

[00:25:12] Yeah, I'm trying not to do that I try not to do that as much as possible But really really you know what helps that mostly is is maintaining some level of like

[00:25:25] Like challenge like what I was saying earlier like actually going out there and like actually doing things that don't feel comfortable and Don't go back and Don't go back and sing the hits, you know, try to push yourself into different realms as much as possible

[00:25:41] Do you have a sense in which that is like a big part of the reason why I mean? Sorry to even broach the subject but why like Fugazi is this thing that's in a lot of ways better left in the past

[00:25:50] Fugazi is this thing that's in a lot of ways better left in the past and not yeah that you're not playing Coachella this year It's a hundred percent. Yeah

[00:26:00] a hundred percent like as soon as like as well if you really treat it like I can treat it the way I Can treat Fugazi the way that it's I Don't know there's that there's two sides of it. There's like the

[00:26:16] Like there are my relationship our relationship together as a band Is actually as strong as ever. I mean I still play with Joe all the time. I talked to Guy all the time I talked to Ian and work with Ian all the time on different projects and things

[00:26:31] and So I Honestly like going back and like trying to re-approach Fugazi seems like just almost Like it would threaten my What I have the The good thing I've got going with all three of those guys, you know, like we're all still such pals

[00:26:54] then I just think going back it's like I Just don't know and it and it also it's like it's really nicely Fugazi is really nicely bookended You know, like we did it the way we wanted to do it and

[00:27:07] we did it consistently that way all through our career and we put out the all records were super proud of and when we thought they were done and We you know, there was no knockdown drag-out fuck you moment, you know

[00:27:28] It was just life, you know life was taking over like people's parents were dying people's kids were being born And it was like we can't do this the same way and it felt like that at the time and

[00:27:42] So it's like, okay. Well, let's just take let's take a break and now the break has lasted to whenever 22 years but But like I say it's like it does feel like in this world like I see

[00:27:55] Not and not to be I'm really not being critical of people for doing for doing this because I understand You know why they do this but everybody's going out and playing a record, you know

[00:28:07] They play this 30 year old 20 year old record and something I just don't I mean it's just I Don't know as much it's the only sad part about all that that I that we can't do It is that I actually really love those songs

[00:28:21] I really love the fugazi songs and I would really love them to have a life, you know And that's the part of it. That's a little problematic for me So, I don't know

[00:28:32] If there was a if there was a way possibly to do it for a week a year I'd probably do it for sure But I don't know if that's I don't know if that's possible because fugazi never did it for a week here

[00:28:44] I mean that one of the things that I think drove us to stop working together is that we really only knew one way To do things which was like 100% of the time Practice five hours a day, you know, like right, right, right, right, you know

[00:28:58] And just be a real band be in or being in each other's faces all the time, you know and be writing all the time So I don't know. It's good question not to be too crass about it

[00:29:10] But like yeah, I mean if you all had enormous gambling debts, you know It might be a different story But it seems like everybody has done quite well for themselves after so there's no there isn't that like pragmatic push to do it

[00:29:21] Did I mention I have four children? So yeah, I think I have an enormous what could be Metaphorically termed an enormous gambling debt. That's a good point. However, I don't know, you know

[00:29:32] It seems like you figured out bit better again being super crass about it better revenue streams than maybe being in a touring That's true. I still tour all the time

[00:29:42] I don't know. I still trying to figure out what I'm gonna be when I grow up. But yeah, we Yeah, now we still tour plenty. I still but I yeah, you're right

[00:29:50] So augment it with all sorts of video work and soundtrack work and stuff like that I work all the time so On just different things try to fill up my calendar as much as possible

[00:30:02] But uh, yeah and all of your kids ended up being musicians in some way or another Three out of four. Okay, it's pretty good in play play. I got ours. This is my daughter's band. Yeah girl

[00:30:15] She's the one who's most well she's not the most active because Leo is in a band called Cleo walks through glass and then ace is in a band called young June And I don't know. I just don't know to what extent they play all the time

[00:30:34] But Mabel seems to be playing a whole lot. She was opening for Mary Timoney who recently had on the show So she's kind of keeping it in that whole DC family which is beautiful Mary was her guitar teacher. So that Was like but yes

[00:30:50] Yeah, I I tour managed that tour up the East Coast with with did you come to the to Mary's show at the? Bowery ballroom because Mabel played the birthday girl played that show But yeah, they're playing and they're playing with

[00:31:07] Bikini kill at the in September they're getting lots of really good opening slots And guided by voices on June 7th and I Know they're like they immediately getting asked to do like tons of like bigger shows and they're like we're 16 years old like we need to play like

[00:31:28] Comet ping-pong and like the smaller gigs around town, you know, we want to do that They want to be they want to have their own scene too, you know But that's an interesting that's interesting because and I wonder how much of it is

[00:31:39] What's that band the Linda Linda's of just like people are really excited about just like girls like girls like young girls Yeah punk rock and understandably Yeah, not just punk rock. I mean like Mabel and Mabel's not playing. They're not necessarily punk a punk band

[00:31:54] They write songs, you know, I mean not that punk rock that sounds bad No, they're like they're more of like a singer songwriter e-band then out like a straight-up punk band but uh, I Yeah, I mean I think there's something really powerful going on

[00:32:10] You know in general just with like the freshness of like women not just like just being you know comfortable Enough to like say what they want to say speak but you know And that's like it's just so different than when we were young

[00:32:27] Where's like there was so much like criticism around women's Music and it just feels like people are much more accepting of And it's really powerful to see that to see that going on sort of universally. It still exists certainly But I think there's

[00:32:47] Now a more powerful voice on the other side, which is nice Yeah, and we don't hang out with people who criticize women's music doing I'd like to think we don't we don't shake hands with those people

[00:32:59] It's an extra wrinkle to this that your father, you know was an accomplished musician not a professional one but in terms of You know the level the level in which you know You want to sort of foster your children's musical career and support them, but also be very

[00:33:17] again very Practical about how big of a challenge it is and how hard of a road that is to go down Yeah. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah You mean just in terms of life stuff or you're talking about you're talking about like if you choose this life

[00:33:37] You will be broke until you're 80. Yeah pretty much you'll be working 80 hours a week to earn less than anybody who worked 40 hours and You'll be dealing with tons of bullshit just to get up on stage for an hour every day

[00:33:53] You'll have to schlep your gear however bad it was for me at the time It only seems to be getting worse Yeah, but yeah Yeah, I you know I think the way I would encourage them to is to come compartment and I do say this

[00:34:13] I mean I was like can't be you know It's not necessarily Not even healthy for your art to try to get everything out of your art is to get your living and your

[00:34:21] Creativity and your friendships and everything out of this out of your music like you have to be a diversified person in general and not just like as I like falling you know not just about like falling back on things but just like

[00:34:35] Just in terms of like don't kill the thing you love, right? I mean you just like just take just lately lessen the load that your creativity needs to carry That's all I'm saying. So it's like if it's if it feels like it's

[00:34:50] About to break or that there's too much, you know, cuz I think a lot of I think it happens a lot I think people like even if you get famous if you have a great hit record, it's even it's almost

[00:35:00] Harder because you're trying to keep trying to keep people dancing on the dance floor You know Like once you're when you're DJing is hard hard to keep everybody happy all the time and it's also you it's hard To keep everybody supported. You can't support like people like

[00:35:15] You know, I look it's a band like Pearl Jam or something like that's a lot of mouths to feed in that organization You know and there's a lot of responsibility and they do it better than anybody I mean they they really take care of everybody better than anybody

[00:35:29] But can you imagine the pressure the upward pressure on somebody? You know like Eddie or somebody who like like has to you know Make decisions that once you hit a certain level you're expected to maintain that level Yeah, for sure and it's like I think that's

[00:35:47] You know just to my point I just think that's a lot to ask of Anybody so then I think everywhere every I mean maybe maybe it's good problems to have I don't know but it's But to me I try to like

[00:36:02] Just maintain and I think they see it in my life where it's like I have the band But I also work, you know, I also do other work and that's like and I also have my family life

[00:36:13] You know, I also love I mean I love my family. I love my house. I love my neighborhood I love my but I love being on the road with people, you know I love being I love my band so much right now

[00:36:23] You know and we're having you know great shows and put out a record that I'm really proud of and it's like all these things like All these things kind of have to they kind of have to compliment each other

[00:36:36] And if they don't if they don't compliment each other one thing is taking you know is messing with the other thing That's when the that's when the problem arises, you know

[00:36:46] So you just really work your ass off to make sure because because if I was if I was out there going Like and this happened at the end of Fugazi where we were going out a lot and I had three very young kids

[00:36:59] No, none of my kids are young anymore. So that's probably another freeing aspect of the whole thing. But When they were young and just like you feel like you're drowning, you know

[00:37:09] It's like you can't split for a month and a half, you know, I guess a bad form, you know So you just like basically Anyway, so that's what I'm trying to impart to them. It's like that. I mean, I think I'm a pretty good

[00:37:25] Spokesperson for that for that balance for at least Attempting a level of balance as you're saying, you know, you can't depend on it for your You know your life and your friendship, but like You know looking at you

[00:37:39] It seems like so much of your life has come out of music I mean, you know, you're talking about these still incredibly tight relationships that you had with these

[00:37:49] former and in some cases current bandmates that you knew when you were you were a teenager so, you know certainly At the same time music has also gifted you all of these assets of life

[00:38:02] Yeah, yeah, I mean it's great for that. I mean it's great to bring you into I mean working in a band working with a band that actually like That actually creates together, you know and like all that that that that I love all that

[00:38:18] I mean, that's it but it just like it just I just I Think in Fugazi, I think it was there was a feeling though that it was like I I Needed to do some I needed to do other things, you know

[00:38:33] I needed like just it really was gonna snap like if In especially in Fugazi because we'd spent so much of our time together You know that it was and that's something you don't I mean I don't think you want that, you know

[00:38:46] You know if you've been really close and really tight with people and you don't want it to you don't want it to fall apart You know, you want to stay in each other's lives So to me I think that was

[00:38:59] That was you know, one of the one of the things I was worried about in that in that band but towards the end and But it's all but it's also like I don't I mean I'm not saying like don't commit yourself to something

[00:39:15] Because I think it's important to Have some level of commitment and have like commitment in the band for sure. But um, I Just think that there's there's kind of two You know Charles it's like Charles Ives always worked at jobs, you know, so he could

[00:39:35] So he could write the wacky his music He could possibly good and I think that that's I you know It's like you see it throughout life that the person who wrote his novels but was also a postman is

[00:39:47] Sort of what I more what I aspire to be then like like let's just do session after session after session you know and Work on the road non-stop. It seems to me a lot of people who

[00:40:03] Are in a band like that where things are so intense for so long and it is such a defining Part of your life or and and during such a formative period that it might be hard to come down from that

[00:40:16] And it might be you might have to almost go through the process of like rediscovering who you are as a person outside of the group Yeah, but and it's also like you are also as we said earlier in this conversation you're constantly changing

[00:40:30] I mean you just are I mean right there so you're meeting new people You're reading new books. You're trying to get smarter You know like all these things that are happening

[00:40:41] This and some of the sounds that you were making before don't serve you as well as they do now You know just aesthetically like you're always looking for Something else you're always halfway up the hill, you know I

[00:40:54] Felt like that in fugazi and I feel like it now like you're you're if you're not like out there like at least trying to create And challenge yourself creatively then You know, there's not really

[00:41:06] There's not any point to be to to doing it. But but that's not just musically That's just like that's in in life itself, you know, you have to really like maintain some level of of terror in your life

[00:41:24] If you will what was that period like and how did you sort of how did you get in touch with You mean after fugazi? Yeah Well, I mean that was all that was there's I mean, you know, we

[00:41:37] Got married bought a house and had a kid almost immediately like an all in one year in 97 by 90 By 2002 we had our third child on the way and Like I say we were you know fugazi was having

[00:41:56] You know, it was taking longer and longer to write a record It was taking less we were we're not able to tour quite as much and I just frankly needed to actually like work more You know, I saw I saw and I started doing some

[00:42:10] soundtracks for people and going out and doing Not I wasn't doing film work at that point I was just doing soundtrack for film at that point for television for Documentaries and things like that. I was doing some audio work mixing things and writing music for you know

[00:42:31] Oh man, I did everything I mean I was just doing whatever yeah, whatever to make it work You know and then You know and my my wife's father passed away very suddenly of a heart attack at 60

[00:42:48] Which was traumatic and then 9-eleven happened like a month later and then so things were feeling like really like Vastly out of my control, you know And I felt like you know, this is something I really have to be I have to be home

[00:43:05] All the time for these kids, you know, that was the main thing and so that self-discovery Happened, you know fugazi played its last show in 2002 and Over in London about this time of year I think it was and then

[00:43:26] And then it was just like it's just a process of like throwing myself into Parenthood and trying to make something That looked like another life another career in You know doing music doing soundtracks doing films now I almost

[00:43:51] It's funny because I almost in within a couple years. I was like out on the road with Bob Bull Like I started playing with other people pretty quickly But I did But I did have to sort of teach myself like all of these

[00:44:06] You know teach myself Pro Tools and teach myself You know when I was teaching myself music theory already and playing piano a lot And you know when I earlier when I was out in Seattle, so I was always trying to like develop this other side hustle as like

[00:44:23] You know as a score as a You know as a score as a Composer Which you know really that primarily is what I did for years Doing like you know prison shows and you know, whatever shows on National Geographic

[00:44:44] And I wasn't and I didn't go out I didn't besides Bob Mould I didn't really play out a ton and And I was it, you know at home kind of doing my Doing my thing basically with my family Yeah for for

[00:45:03] For years really so it wasn't and then I in 2013 had a band called deathfix Which I started playing guitar and singing in because I was writing songs with my friend rich Morell

[00:45:15] And we played those out and put out a record and then it kind of got me back into playing a little bit Live, but then I didn't really start playing drums again Seriously Until I started playing with this guy Doug Callamire

[00:45:29] And we were just started playing in this thing called super silver haze which was just an instrumental and film thing live And then once I started playing drums. I was like Felt I don't know. I just started feeling much more comfortable

[00:45:45] much more like happy to see an old friend and going out there and I Met up with Met up with and then Joe moved back and Joe and I were just sticking around and ended up

[00:45:58] teaming up with Anthony who I was a fan of because I'd been going to see him play and a lot of different iterations and Then that turned into the methetics in 2018 and then we've just been doing that as our primary my primary out outlet since then Yeah

[00:46:19] So, I don't know No, we're all caught up in 15 years of listening to you Talk about being what in for this record at least, you know It's a jazz band and you brought in a real like jazz guy to play to play jazz

[00:46:36] That that is that that in and of itself has been one of those big challenges for you It's almost like keeping up with the guys You know you're keeping up with these guys, yeah, they're fucking amazing players, you know

[00:46:48] Well, I mean Anthony and and James are incredible together. I mean this Probably a hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of education and that guy's horn He's like no, but he's just but he's also just one of the greatest

[00:47:02] I just always I mean we played with them multiple times up in New York and It's funny because the writing process wasn't that different than it was The process wasn't that different than anything else that we ever did but it was

[00:47:17] But we always had in his voice his his sound in our heads while we were writing this record And so it kind of made it It made it Is just so much easier the whole process was so much easier because it was sort of like getting us

[00:47:32] Be somebody who can do anything. He said got a beautiful voice. You play softly. We have beautifully can really wail his heart You know and and he's also like we give him like really difficult Music and he's right on top of it

[00:47:45] So you see his music is very difficult if you hear his quartet. It's like their new his new record Is incredibly complex and so Oddly enough like once we once he got in the band it was like

[00:48:02] This is the easiest thing on the planet, you know, it was really like the record We did the record in two days for $1,500 and just said like didn't never we never even mix the record. It's just the rough mixes on the record

[00:48:15] I was just like oh this sounds great you happy you happy you happy? Okay, great. We're done and then a Friend at impulse records was like hey, can I hear that and we're like, yeah And he's like, can we put it out and we're like, of course

[00:48:29] I mean there's never been an easier For as challenging as I I like to talk about it. It's really like it's not it's not the challenge of it I think is Trying to you know get people to care about the thing the instrumental music is hard

[00:48:49] You know and that's a and bridging the gap between rock and jazz has been really hard You know trying to get people like in like James is huge in the jazz world and not in the rock world and vice versa

[00:49:03] Like we nobody gives a fuck about them aesthetics in the jazz world, you know necessarily but we're trying to say like You know, but it's it's but that's part of the effort that's part of the challenge for this whole record and for this

[00:49:19] Come this collaboration. So it for up for me. I feel like That's been a daily hard and interesting thing to deal with is that the segregated world between jazz and and rock but

[00:49:39] That's okay, I'm happy did happy to try it's been that dialogue that happens around it is super interesting It seems like the the people that you've gotten through to in the jazz world have been welcoming though

[00:49:50] Yeah, no, no, you're right. Yeah, I think because I think it works I mean, I'm really I'm proud of the record because I think it's I mean, I love it I love what I love what he the way James has augmented the melodies that that Anthony

[00:50:07] Has written or that any of us is we've all collaborated or contributed to the record? But Jane, you know Anthony has these some very complicated pieces on the record

[00:50:18] And that James threw himself into and that it really elevates those things and that that happens even on the road We're out on the road and throwing stuff out all the time

[00:50:27] Like we have we have all new songs and some old songs that we think would sound cool on And his horn just makes everything sound amazing. It's much more. It's much more. It's a much more real voice You know, it just sounds more three-dimensional, you know

[00:50:44] with with him on it so No, I've been really Yeah, and I to your point I yes people have been really receptive and I don't want it like I'm not turning my nose up But the jazz world at all. They've been really Like downbeat gave us four stars

[00:51:02] Like we were playing the Newport Jazz Festival Like there's all these markers of success in the jazz world that we've just crossed over this week You know, so I mean that you know and pitchfork likes it. So I That is the rare triple crown. Yeah exactly

[00:51:20] Is pitchfork Belmont? I think picture like the things Anyways, yeah, it's been it's been a it's been a great this has been a The these shows that we've played are my favorite shows. I played in like since Wigazi. It's been fake fucking fantastic

[00:51:42] I love playing being on stage with these guys and a lot of it is because I feel like I just I Can just be the drummer, you know, like I've been fully emotionally and artistically support these guys and be a support be a utility player in this way

[00:51:59] I mean I I can respond to what they're throwing down and I can sit there and enjoy the fact that they're like Racing ahead to as another racehorse metaphor when you put two horses side by side

[00:52:12] They will race each other and these guys have been doing that every night. I've been so happy